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3 yr. ago

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • I would not trust the self-reported "suicide" rates of a communist nation. They notoriously skew data and facts "for the common good", so I would expect that people would be recorded as having died of so-called "other causes" much more often. Like a 80-year-old who shot themselves in the head with a gun might be reported as having died "of old age", which is likely at least partially true - their age being one of many factors in their decision to end their life prematurely, tying in as it would to their quality of life and hope for their remaining future, etc.

    So any comparison of self-reported stats like this image is fraught with issues like that, apples to oranges as they say. I cannot for sure say the intention of either the poster or the creator, but at the very least this looks like misinformation, and I will add that there is a well-known pattern of disinformation that this graphic exactly matches, so a claim that it is part of a psyop cannot immediately be debunked.

    This is why I no longer tell people irl that I visit the Threadiverse: every single one or them has checked out Lemmy.ml (which notably shows a LOCAL rather than GLOBAL feed to users without an account), and actively chided me about it. I cannot blame them actually.

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • To anyone who wants to do a test - easily reversed in mere seconds - try blocking the Lemmy.ml instance, then visiting this exact OP and see if the comment section looks any different as a result. Heck, open it up in a second browser window (no need to log in even) showing the before and after, and as a challenge, try to count the number of differences.

    I will give them a hint: it is zero. Users thus "blocked" in that manner can still post, reply, vote (brigade), and even send you DMs, which trigger notifications, which btw can last for WEEKS and WEEKS without ever stopping. Their own admins refuse to do anything about it, thus the situation will continue, unless counteracted by an equal opposing force.

    Blocking an entire instance at once is literally impossible using standard Lemmy software (without getting into higher level complexities such as custom uBlock Origin filter settings), despite how it seems to be the #1 thing that people on Lemmy.ml tell others to do, it is impossible to actually enact.

    PieFed can do it though. Which only helps so much since many people on lemmy.ml have alts on other instances, which I've seen many people proudly announce that it was done specifically to get around such blocks and recommending that others do likewise.

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • Welcome!

  • That's the thing, many of these people self-report that they have tried. These are the ones who got over the hurdle of "it's too complicated" and bravely dived right in. We here who use Linux btw aren't afraid of such, but ofc to many people that is still daunting. But anyway, there are MANY who did come here... only to nope right back out, some of them retuning to Reddit.

    And at least some of those - at least it definitely does not seem rare or even uncommon (it may even be fully common if not quite average) - remained here for years. They did not simply pop in for a day, not like what they saw, and popped right back out: they stuck with us, if not visiting daily then at least off and on for multiple years.

    And then they abandoned the Threadiverse, going around trashing our reputation to anyone who will listen. And, given the several posts related to this topic just within the last week alone, not without good reasons. Even we who remain here (for however much longer) don't like what we see.

    Perhaps part of the problem is how we talk about it: I don't care about discussions with "tankies" in relation to whatever political beliefs someone may have, I care about discussions with "trolls" and "incels" for whom no means push forward harder, who do not respect any boundaries and so turn people away from this platform, sometimes the moment they set foot here while other times in the longer term sense. We don't so much have a "tankie problem" (that is in reference to a famous title of an old post here several years ago), we have a... what exactly? Though if we go down that route, it's not a simple, single explanation but rather multiple - like trolls (hexbear) and doomerism posts and incels (meh, all social media has those though, it's just that our overall lack of moderation tools allows them to thrive more here than elsewhere). The word "tankie" has come to symbolize all of those, in part bc it fits, if not extremely well then at least better than any other singular word?

    But I want to stress that we do not merely have an image problem, so much as major structural ones. For the people coming here, having to choose between man vs. bear (our often unmoderated spaces that in many ways resemble 4chan, vs. the overly moderated fascist partners like Reddit and X that heavily limit what you are allowed to say), despite how we might think that their choice is "stupid", even so they have chosen the bear.

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • Which makes it the only instance on the entire Threadiverse that does that, afaik.

  • Tankies act a heck of a lot like Alt-Right MAGA, both outright calling for genocide so long as it is done against their enemies rather than allies. In short, tankies claim to be leftist, but aren't.

    That said, Hexbear isn't even that much really, so much as pure trolling for its own sake. Both are examples of what happens when echo chambers are allowed to exist for a long time - the people inside become radicalized and immune to factual information from the outside that may run counter to their allowed list of interpretations of matters.

  • You pretty much have to, yeah. Each platform has its own optimizations for its type of content, like Loops specializes in videos and the Threadiverse in link aggregation or text and pics.

    That said, you can check out Mbin to at least lessen the number of accounts somewhat: it looks to me too focused on the needs of microblogging (e.g. longer titles that even span multiple lines), and last I checked had an enormous amount of wasted space for more Threadiverse style content (with tiny titles, perhaps a single word even). Although even noticing that could make you feel better about creating a new account for each service:-). It just goes with the territory.

    Likewise, PieFed allows integration with Friendica and is expanding upon tighter integration with Mastodon... but it is primarily optimized for integration with Lemmy-style content more than anything else.

  • Yes but mostly labeled and primarily contained within certain boundaries - some users, whole entire instances (lemmit), and communities. And arguably, a bot that is properly labeled as such is not a problem, especially when you can automatically filter or otherwise distinguish such content (e.g. PieFed provides numerous tools for this).

    Meanwhile, Reddit is a lost cause in this regard.

  • Fwiw, PieFed has mostly solved the discoverability issue. Here's a neat trick: make a new account on PieFed.social (note that PieFed.World won't work, since they haven't bothered to flesh out their categories of communities) and go through the sign-up wizard. Browse for a week, and every time you see a community that you like, subscribe to it also in your Lemmy account.

    Make sure to also check out not only your Subscribed feed, but also the categories of communities too. It opens up a whole new method of browsing content. I get literal and actual poetry posts (despite ~10 upvotes + 0 comments) occasionally crossing my Subscribed feed this way, and if I feel in the mood it's fairly easy (even for you now without an account login needed) to see it at https://piefed.social/topic/arts-craft.

    Lemmy has nothing remotely like this, even though I like its UI.

  • However, neither are going to happen, without enormous efforts to buck the existing trends. See e.g. these recent comments from a community that was considering whether to switch from Reddit to the Threadiverse (https://www.reddit.com/r/fossdroid/comments/1uiywal/should_we_switch_to_lemmy/):

    I tried switching to Lemmy a long time ago, but that place is toxic and full of weird people.

    There are big pockets of radical tankie communities on Lemmy that like trolling and being toxic

    There are a lot more reasons than this but having spent the last 3 years on the fediverse alternatives, and just seen the shit that happens over there, I feel very confident in saying it will not ever serve as a serious Reddit alternative. It will serve as something, but not Reddit

    Lemmy is shit. So is reddit but Lemmy is shittier

    Sadly, these seem representative of how people think of us here. You can see it for yourself too: simply browse most instances from an account without your existing blocks, in order to see what it is like from the eyes of a Redditor. Worse, they are primarily Christian centrists, and not only do they not FEEL welcomed here, but... in truth... they AREN'T ⁉️

    There was a brief moment when Lemmy had ~65k active users, immediately during the Rexodus. That quickly fell to ~55k, which then fell to a more stable ~45k, and nowadays we are down to ~35k. And this is despite how Reddit is even in a process of killing off old-reddit, which is what we all said was going to be the signal for the end of Reddit and the great migration here. Tbf it is still early in that process, but it's already started, it's not some future date it's happening now. And the people there say that there is no way in hell that they will come here. Maybe Bluesky, but not Lemmy.

    Perhaps that's fine - perhaps we are collectively okay with remaining niche, and most content (even some of the morenhighly technical stuff) staying on Reddit, but since your comment expressed the opposite desire, I thought I would try to point out that it is simply not going to happen - not unless there is a major change (bc otherwise simply doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result tends to not work out so well).

    Perhaps the upcoming release of Lemmy v1.0, when moderator reports will finally begin federating out to other instances, can help create spaces that are more free of the types of behaviors that are currently causing people to avoid us here like the plague. I somewhat doubt it but... it's possible? Lemmy will always remain tiny, so it is perhaps best that we make our peace with that. Sorry, it is what it is.

  • The answer is extraordinarily simple, notwithstanding the fact that people refuse to hear it. It is called the Intolerance Paradox.

    By allowing bullying and other toxic behaviors, we condone them and even amplify them further. Hey look, come join the Threadiverse, we have pics of cats here! Never mind the fact that for every such picture there are twenty pics saying how Western civilization must fall, so that Russia, China, and North Korea may rise!!

    Just learn to block people bro! And then also learn to block instances! Except don't do that! Also, you literally can't bc the software merely claims that you can, but actually haha you cannot really! Then learn to use keywords, never mind that the software does not let you do that either!!

    If people go someplace and constantly get punched in the face then... I for one do not blame them when they stop going there? Which leads to less content, and making this space even more of an echo chamber than it already is.

    Paradox of Intolerance

  • We call this part the Threadiverse - bc of threaded conversional style, not user-centric like the microblog style but instead topic-based.

    The (some say unfortunate?) term predates the mostly dead and predatory Threads offering by Meta, and people are adamant about not changing it so... there it is. Also, don't worry, threads.net is literally the only instance that is mass-banned by EVERY SINGLE ONE of the servers across the entire Threadiverse. And aside from that, it's actually a good name, which we decided to not let them take from us!!

  • I absolutely love how transparent having a list like that is!! Thanks for sharing so that we know how awesome your instance is.

  • With PieFed (as you have) you can both have your cake and eat it too. By unsubscribing from all political communities, it prevents such content from entering into your Subscribed feed, but then visiting a politics feed brings it back to being instantly available at the touch of that button.

    PieFed.zip does not have as extensive built-in options related to politics as PieFed.social (where there are multiple layers in a hierarchy, broken down into subregions geographically), so the closest is probably Global News. Though also since feeds are user-customizable and shareable you can always custom-build your own to perfectly suit your tastes or reuse someone else's who has already done so. Noting post flairs where available can help with this too - e.g. a flair saying USA politics if you want to avoid that can help you skip over those posts by color (there are even custom CSS code you could implement to filter those out, if you wanted to get deeper).

    Pro-Tip: for low-volume communities where you want to be alerted to every single post (daily comics? or something that you help moderate?), you can click the bell icon in the browser web UI and it will send you a notification upon every single post to that community. Even if that ever became overwhelming (a vacation where you did not pause them before leaving?), the notification area is easy to split up into people replying to your content vs. new posts, and then for the latter you don't have to go through one by one but select all and make as read.

    And ofc there's always the old standby of browsing by All and blocking the communities that you are certain that you will never want to see - like those in another language (but unhelpfully not marked as such) that you cannot (so readily) read anyway. That approach is always available anytime.

    It's great to have options to choose from! :-)

  • Rules mean nothing unless they are actively enforced.

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • I need to push back on one point. If you don't want to block anyone, then fine that's your choice, but while it is true that "even a broken clock is right twice a day", it is also true that despite how a clock can still be useful (being decorative, or a memento holding a past memory), yet it is still useless as a clock, i.e. time-keeping device.

    Other people have their particular preferences too, and for those who want their time on the Threadiverse to be enjoyable, and happen to not enjoy arguing with trolls, it makes sense for some people to block Lemmy.ml.

    I wanted to clarify since it sounded at first like you were arguing against OP complaining about the whole situation. Sorry if I misunderstood - I guess this whole thread has gotten quite charged so people are on edge as a result.

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • If only .ml would label itself as explicitly political so that people knew what it was about rather than having to discover it the hard way...

    Especially when browsing by All, and all the more so when the default setting of the most popular 3rd party apps actively hides the instance names, on both users and communities, it's really impossible to know unless you go tinkering with those settings to their non-default values.

    It is very easy to forget what the experience looks like for a brand-new user of the Fediverse.

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • I feel really conflicted about whether to upvote this comment or not...

    (Whatever will Palantir think of me⁉️)

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • Fwiw Lemmy.World has >6-fold more users on it than the 2nd-largest Lemmy instance. https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list

    The Fediverse is shrinking https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats&months=48.

    And people cite how it is our toxicity that pushes them away. https://www.reddit.com/r/fossdroid/comments/1uiywal/should_we_switch_to_lemmy/.

    Many trolls exist on Lemmy.World but also sth like >90% of the most active communities are there too. People can help spread this around by posting, commenting, and voting in communities based elsewhere across the Threadiverse.

    Though OP is correct also that in threads such as this one, oftentimes the most acutely aggressive and adversarial responses come from Hexbear (although not possible in this case since the community is located on an instance that has defederated from it) or from Lemmy.ml - the numeric number of trolls is not necessarily higher but the relative level of enrichment is.

  • Block lemmy.ml if lemmy feels tirening.

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  • Oh that's really neat, thanks for sharing!!:-)

    From other comments here, I am piecing together the fact that - probably since instance blocks don't truly exist in Lemmy - the Lemmy side implements these blocks as "community" ones, while the PieFed side either does the same and I simply did not comprehend the difference at the time or else it might use PieFed's instance blocking functionality. Someone on the PieFed side could test this by looking at this OP to see if comments from people on a blocked-by-default instance (Hexbear.net?) are visible, since those would be hidden by an instance block but not a community one.

    Either way, having such optional functionality even further strengthens my respect of the .zip pair of instances - those admins seem really on the ball, working hard to truly care for the people who join:-). Lemmy vs. PieFed software seems far less relevant than having such a great admin team vs. not.

  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    As you wish...

    discuss.online /api/v3/image_proxy
  • TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

    Use the Geordi

  • Fediverse @lemmy.world

    What should the subset of the Fediverse that is Lemmy + Mbin + PieFed be called?

    piefed.social /post/718679