I love Stargate. Most episodes are: we find a foreign people who are un-american and have to do what we can to make them more american. The whole thing is blatant military propaganda. I'm still mad about atlantis season 5.
There is no proper definition for what intelligence is. IQ is well-defined -- it's the number that comes out of an IQ test. This number correlates with many concretely measurable things, such as success (income and/or education level). I don't desire kids, but if I did have kids, I would do what I could to increase their expected IQ, such as through genetics, since that correlates with success and ease of living. These are valid conclusions. Formal logic is not used, only statistics.
It's polite etiquette to mention what you're quoting.
Scores from intelligence tests are estimates of intelligence. Unlike, for example, distance and mass, a concrete measure of intelligence cannot be achieved given the abstract nature of the concept of "intelligence".
Woah woah, I didn't call it a choice. I said it's not genetic. Guess I'm wrong -- there is a genetic component it appears. But twin studies prove it's not purely genetic.
It does not seem obvious to me that we should get rid of autism. I don't know any studies that suggest that people with autism have a lower quality of life. Autism is a form of being different -- neurodivergent. There may be disadvantages to being autistic, but there are likely advantages too. That is different from other more severe disorders that are genetic. (Is autism even genetic?)
Similarly, being LGBTQ+ is not a disadvantage in a sane society. In fact, being bisexual is an advantage I would argue. Regardless, it's not genetic, so why even bring that up?
But there are genetic disorders nearly everyone agrees should be eradicated.
I am clueless about what you're trying to imply. Are you saying that because one heritable thing which has a test for it is unimportant, that means all heritable things that can be measured are unimportant? I think that is what you're saying.
The importance of IQ isn't even what I was arguing over; I was just rebutting top-level comment that IQ is heritable. (I am aware they referred to intelligence, not IQ; but thread is about IQ.)
How does AI factor into this? Also I'm interested to hear your scenario in which voluntarily getting rid of negative traits gets out of control. It's certainly plausible that we might have some kind of runaway evolution. Still, I think it's imperative we prevent genetic diseases.
Ah, right. Yeah, there are some age-old criticisisms of IQ test like translating into a different language can skew the result, or relying on concepts that are cultural but not obviously cultural (like the way buildings are shaped) can skew the result. I'm not generally interested in comparing IQ results between countries or even for people of differing first language though so these don't especially concern me so long as I can be sure a study averts the issue.
From the paper you linked:
there exists a gap in what they are believed to measure and what they do
Hard agree. IQ cannot be said to measure intelligence. But for instance, it correlates well with success (level of education (eventually) reached, or $ in a capitalist society) and I'd be surprised to find any major journal publishing a paper which disputes that.
You're misinformed about eugenics (with a lower-case e, if you don't mind). Easily-measurable traits like height and weight are well known to have heritable components, as do diseases. Eugenics is an effective way to prevent genetic diseases. You probably don't realize that eugenics is a wider subject than the racist and ableist practices of nazis and other ethno-supremacists. You only think eugenics is bad because when people say "eugenics," what the nazis did is what comes to mind, rather than important and good technologies like IVF and selecting against zygotes with alleles associated with negative traits. (And yes, negative traits and positive traits are both heritable, though I'll freely admit that what makes a trait positive or negative is subjective.) See this discussion elsewhere in this thread.
I have a hypothesis that there are three camps of people: (1) those who generally get the science and limitations of IQ; (2) those who are racist bigots and use IQ to justify genocide; (3) those who assume that any attempt to measure intelligence is inherently racist and so IQ must be pseudoscience. (2) and (3) both assume that anyone purporting to be in camp (1) must actually be in camp (3)/(2) respectively.
We actually completely agree about everything, including the typical definition of eugenics. Here's the problem though: when an actually good thing comes along which is technically eugenics (such as the aforementioned IVF programs), it can be called "eugenics" by opponents without much recourse. What's the solution? Is there a defence along the lines of, "it's not eugenics, it's actually
<some other word>
," or is the better move to say "not all eugenics is bad" (but more tactfully than that).
The trouble with the former move is that whatever word is chosen will be co-opted by lunatics like Beattie, and then using the word is just going to look like a dog-whistle or something. So unfortunately I'm stuck waving my hands trying to find the least-appalling way to say "#notalleugenics."
Please, your input is greatly desired as to what to say here. Because I do actually believe in the (DO NOT TAKE THIS OUT OF CONTEXT) power of good eugenics. You say that I should be discussing the ableist, racist, and other problematic aspects associated with eugenics -- I feel like me and my target audience are all aware of these aspects, so you're essentially saying I should include some form of wrapping to make a pill that can be swallowed more easily to get across my actual point. I don't necessarily agree with this as it seems manipulative, like a Trojan horse, but I'm open to hearing what you have to say.
(Regarding sickle-cell -- people who have it generally say it's a horrible illness. It causes immense pain and suffering, and could be resolved with easier access to IVF. I could have chosen another genetic illness, it's just the first one that came to mind because I watched The Pitt recently. I'll admit that choosing an African-associated genetic illness is not a good look for me lol.)
I hate this guy as much as anyone, but you're really rounding what he's saying down. He is calling for "voluntary" mass sterilization via incentivization. It's not responsible to misquote racist trash like him when what he's saying is already so villainously evil.
I love Stargate. Most episodes are: we find a foreign people who are un-american and have to do what we can to make them more american. The whole thing is blatant military propaganda. I'm still mad about atlantis season 5.