Sometimes people need to travel to other countries.
If you have a "need" reason for traveling overseas, you should use a boat, or swim, or invent an efficient teleporter, or do any number of things a sane person would do instead of taking a commercial jet. Really though: need? Not very common.
Because that’s worked so far to stop it.
Has banning?
If it will never work, why pretend banning usernames / IP addresses is effective?
That literally is policy in almost every country. It’s illegal to make or share almost everywhere.
It's not illegal, but it can be against the "laws of man," which aren't real laws because most people agree "the main one is that they're made to be broken"
In other words: lmao you think Trump is going to prison? I hope so
This is outside of the remit of a hypothetical lemmy or piefed instance, because that would be private messaging.
I meant talking about it publicly, but OK, maybe it's a stretch to imagine the authorities cracking down on that. Not much of a stretch to me, but understandable to me how you could think so.
A better example would be a girl posting bikini pics, or something public that it's easy to imagine the authorities falsely labeling as "CSAM" as justification to filter the entire person out of political discussions
I don’t know that he said that at all. He just asked what do you do about the fact that without moderation, people will upload child porn. It’s a matter of when and not if.
If "child porn" (not necessarily actual CSAM) then don't do anything
If actual CSAM, imprison/kill the abusers. I thought I said that already
Right, and I made a whole post about how I found out the reason every instance has these rules is because Lemmy isn't designed to allow a censorship-free instance. That's the post you're commenting on today
lemmy.world: yes, fuck em, I will basically object to anything they do if I even slightly disagree at all
sh.itjust.works: kinda, but not really. I wouldn't ask sh.itjust.works to change how they operate when they've been chill with me so far. I would hope they change someday, but not demand it or have a problem with them staying as they were.
So what’s your issue then? If lemmy.nazi set up shop tomorrow, every single instance would block them and they could be unable to federate because no-one would want to federate with them. What now?
That would be pretty embarrassing for them and the Lemmy devs because Lemmy has no Tor federation, which makes lemmy.nazi an idiot project for trying to exist, and makes Lemmy an idiot project for baiting people to use it to try to make things it doesn't work for
They still own the actual instance that exists on their local servers.
How?
If they are meddled with, they’re meddled with but this is a hypothetical currently.
How? Do I need to yet again repeat how this isn't true, because you missed it, or are you just leaving out another half of the paragraph where you support your statements and connect your counter-argument to the context?
They certainly “own” their server more than I do or you do.
I don't know who you are. I probably own most servers more than most people based on how much influence I've been allowed to exert so far without being killed. Not sure. Wouldn't even be a topic to discuss though, if Lemmy used Tor, where instead of complex collective human webs of "ownership," you just straight up have a guy with a thing that's his that no one else has so he "owns" it
They aren’t subject to the commercial pressures and interests of Reddit.
So?
Unless you mean "any commercial pressures and interests, like how reddit faces those" in which case, no, they are subject to those too
You could literally make your own instance and block all instances that block people. I’m sure there’s already one out there that fulfills this somewhere.
But it would be pointless, because they'd already block themselves before I block them, like all other instances.
What would make it useful would be if federation wasn't broken, so I could block the censored ones without blocking all the others too.
I was looking for right answers, like "bad faith" or "a weak attempt at gaslighting"
Care to try again before expecting me to waste time answering a dumbass question you should be able to figure out the answer to / find my previous answers to yourself?
Have these relays now specifically censored anyone?
Yes, every instance (I accidentally said relay which fits fine, thanks for not nitpicking that) apparently blocks federation with any Tor instance, perhaps unintentionally.
No, I just don’t want to interact with them an argue with them over whether or not Jews and LGBT people get to live.
I usually don't either. I want my main social media feed to filter out the whole list of those people, like I want my Lemmy instance to filter out all Lemmy instances outside an uncensored cluster.
But it's also a duty to spend time fighting with Nazis sometimes, and there are people like me who can take breaks from regular social interaction to thrive in doing that duty, unless you ban us and them for "using slurs" or something.
So you don’t have an example?
I'm definitely not looking for one. Are you trying to bait me into "incriminating" myself? Without federation, as I said, whatever ones are out there would surely be focused on stuff banned by the authorities.
You keep talking about the prospect of a Lemmy instance being censored by ICANN or the President directly, but it’s just simply never happened.
That sounds insane. Can you support that statement by showing me a federated instance that doesn't ban anyone but spammers, or another explanation for why they all do?
There’s not a single person on here who you haven’t complained about how they’re replying to you.
Before we proceed, can you confirm you understand that's according to you, not me? I do not remember if it's true, it is not "according to me." You said it twice but still haven't admitted you're wrong. If you are too addicted to bad-faith discussion to admit this, I am done reading what you type.
It sounds like you haven't even read my post. My whole point (as I've repeated many times throughout this thread to others acting like you) is that I cannot solve this by running my own instance because Lemmy federation is broken.
Has any specific instance been shut down or pressured by ICANN?
Every instance has been pressured by ICANN. Even if there are instances at onion address, ICANN forcibly preventing them from using more mainstream addresses should clearly count as "pressure."
I'm not sure if any instance was on a domain name/IP address before being shut down or moving to an onion address or something.
You’re inventing a legal relationship hierarchy and then imposing it on the “leftist sub-owners” (as you call them).
How?
Have you got any evidence of ICANN being compromised by MAGA zealots just waiting to shut down instances?
Is this a strawman or do you have some reason for asking me for evidence of some random thing that incidentally uses some of the same words I used?
And what do you mean by “censorship fetish” exactly?
"Censorship cultism" would be more accurate, but also harsher and less approachable wording.
Notice how many times in this thread I've had to copy and paste the "censorship fetish" part because people wasted my time trying to justify censorship, or pretending it isn't happening, because they enjoy seeing it happen to the people it happens to right now and somehow that makes it not count (italics for the "absolutely batshit insane nonsense they really must be fucking embarrassed they haven't snapped out of" part)
No instance owner here would be happy with some regulatory body intervening and shutting them down.
Then every instance owner should be using Tor for hosting and federation
According to you, the entire thread is apparently trolling you.
Nope, I don’t have a view on “the entire thread” because I don’t feel like trying to remember all the comments at once. But I can’t remember any replies from people that didn’t end up trolling me. So the statement you attribute to me might be true, even though the attribution isn’t. Either the entire thread is trolling me, or a large enough portion to drown out the others in my short-term memory right now.
So as I said: According to you, the entire thread is apparently trolling you.
Nope, I don’t have a view on “the entire thread” because I don’t feel like trying to remember all the comments at once. But I can’t remember any replies from people that didn’t end up trolling me. So the statement you attribute to me might be true, even though the attribution isn’t. Either the entire thread is trolling me, or a large enough portion to drown out the others in my short-term memory right now.
You said that “I just notice that IP address bans should be for filtering bots, not humans”. This is just an opinion. It doesn’t obliged website owners to operate like this. The principle of free association runs up against you.
That’s not me. I have no power to compel any instance to do what they like.
Correct, you don't individually. You just use the relays you want to use, but if those are ones that censor people, then that's how authority is generally more collective than authoritarians seem to think.
You give the President and random mods/admins the authority to potentially delete posts or have users banned, but you also collectively give yourselves and each other that authority. You want to pretend Nazis don't exist, instead of dealing with them, so in your authority as a user, you use instances with admins in line with that.
Can I see an example of when ICANN or the President leaned on or shut down a Lemmy/Piefed instance?
Sure, if you can find a Lemmy instance hosted at an onion address, which honestly I would bet is probably out there.
According to the documentation, any Lemmy instance on an onion address would be sacrificing "federation" to use Tor, so it's safe to assume the only instances doing that are the ones doing stuff ICANN / the President wouldn't allow, and that would probably be confirmed by looking at those instances.
On the other hand, there might be none, in which case, no, the instances "shut down" from DNS/IP address access are gone, no onion address, nowhere left for you to see.
I explained my situation. I want to shift towards a cluster of zero-censorship instances, but I found out they apparently can't exist because Lemmy blocks Tor (?), so I'm better off just spending less time on Lemmy.
I don't care that much if devs fix it, I'm just explaining the problem. If it gets fixed, good; if not, the devs who would fix it will do some other good thing; if that's not enough for the planet to survive, it's that there aren't enough good devs, not that they aren't focused enough on Lemmy. I hope there are enough good devs for the planet to survive, and also for Lemmy to get fixed, though.
You're a "communist" that refuses to help make communism happen because you're more attached to censorship.
That's called being right-wing.
Left-wing people are not attached to censorship, so when we say "I'm a communist" we mean "I am actively trying to do communism," not merely "I would try to do communism if I could find a way that's more compatible with censorship"
If you have a "need" reason for traveling overseas, you should use a boat, or swim, or invent an efficient teleporter, or do any number of things a sane person would do instead of taking a commercial jet. Really though: need? Not very common.
Has banning?
If it will never work, why pretend banning usernames / IP addresses is effective?
It's not illegal, but it can be against the "laws of man," which aren't real laws because most people agree "the main one is that they're made to be broken"
In other words: lmao you think Trump is going to prison? I hope so
I meant talking about it publicly, but OK, maybe it's a stretch to imagine the authorities cracking down on that. Not much of a stretch to me, but understandable to me how you could think so.
A better example would be a girl posting bikini pics, or something public that it's easy to imagine the authorities falsely labeling as "CSAM" as justification to filter the entire person out of political discussions
If "child porn" (not necessarily actual CSAM) then don't do anything
If actual CSAM, imprison/kill the abusers. I thought I said that already