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ell1e

@ ell1e @leminal.space

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2
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135
Joined
1 yr. ago

  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • I agree. However, I think the natural conclusion is an LLM ban. See also here.

  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • Which I'm guessing they cannot attest, if LLMs truly have the 2-10% plagiarism rate that multiple studies seem to claim. It's an absurd rule, if you ask me. (Not that I would know, I'm not a lawyer.)

  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • If the accountability cannot be practically fulfilled, the reasonable policy becomes a ban.

    What good is it to say "oh yeah you can submit LLM code, if you agree to be sued for it later instead of us"? I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, but sometimes I feel like that's what the Linux Foundation policy says.

  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • If you would have written it yourself the same way, why not write it yourself? (And there was autocomplete before the age of LLMs, anyway.)

    The big problems start with situations where it doesn't match what you would have written, but rather what somebody else has written, character by character.

  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • It's less extremist if you look at how easily these LLMs will just plagiarize 1:1, apparently:

    https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/38072#issuecomment-4105681567

    Some see "AI slop" as "identified by the immediate problems of it that I can identify right away".

    Many others see "AI slop" as bringing many more problems beyond the immediate ones. Then seeing LLM output as anything but slop becomes difficult.

  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • Whatever it is, it doesn't mean LLMs are a sane or "inevitable" answer.

  • Linux lays down the law on AI-generated code, says yes to Copilot, no to AI slop, and humans take the fall for mistakes — after months of fierce debate, Torvalds and maintainers come to an agreement

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  • Ultimately, the policy legally anchors every single line of AI-generated code

    How would that even be possible? Given the state of things:

    https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3543507.3583199

    Our results suggest that [...] three types of plagiarism widely exist in LMs beyond memorization, [...] Given that a majority of LMs’ training data is scraped from the Web without informing content owners, their reiteration of words, phrases, and even core ideas from training sets into generated texts has ethical implications. Their patterns are likely to exacerbate as both the size of LMs and their training data increase, [...] Plagiarized content can also contain individuals’ personal and sensitive information.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/01/ai-memorization-research/685552/

    Four popular large language models—OpenAI’s GPT, Anthropic’s Claude, Google’s Gemini, and xAI’s Grok—have stored large portions of some of the books they’ve been trained on, and can reproduce long excerpts from those books. [...] This phenomenon has been called “memorization,” and AI companies have long denied that it happens on a large scale. [...]The Stanford study proves that there are such copies in AI models, and it is just the latest of several studies to do so.

    https://www.twobirds.com/en/insights/2025/landmark-ruling-of-the-munich-regional-court-(gema-v-openai)-on-copyright-and-ai-training

    The court confirmed that training large language models will generally fall within the scope of application of the text and data mining barriers, [...] the court found that the reproduction of the disputed song lyrics in the models does not constitute text and data mining, as text and data mining aims at the evaluation of information such as abstract syntactic regulations, common terms and semantic relationships, whereas the memorisation of the song lyrics at issue exceeds such an evaluation and is therefore not mere text and data mining

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2949719123000213#b7

    In this work we explored the relationship between discourse quality and memorization for LLMs. We found that the models that consistently output the highest-quality text are also the ones that have the highest memorization rate.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.02671

    recent work shows that substantial amounts of copyrighted text can be extracted from open-weight models. However, it remains an open question if similar extraction is feasible for production LLMs, given the safety measures [...]. We investigate this question [...] our work highlights that, even with model- and system-level safeguards, extraction of (in-copyright) training data remains a risk for production LLMs.

    How does merely tagging the apparently stolen content make it less problematic, given I'm guessing it still won't have any attribution of the actual source (which for all we know, might often even be GPL incompatible)?

    But I'm not a lawyer, so I guess what do I know. But even from a non-legal angle, what is this road the Linux Foundation seems to embrace of just ignoring the license of projects? Why even have the kernel be GPL then, rather than CC0?

    I don't get it. And the article calling this "pragmatism" seems absurd to me.

  • Tech Talk: How Electron went Wayland-native, and what it means for your apps | Electron

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  • I appreciate the clarification! However, 1. the original comment seemed to be talking about a simple uncustomized frame not looking correct, which sounds like the GNOME problem. And 2. the article still seems to imply Wayland means no SSD, as far as I can tell, which to my knowledge as a general statement isn't true.

    Therefore, I apologize for misreading the main intention of the article, but I think there are multiple reasons why people might misread it. Perhaps some clarifications could help?

  • “Good Taste” Is Just Experience

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  • Since the article mentions AI: I think good taste is to avoid LLM tools altogether. They hallucinate, seem to have provably no intelligence, and apparently frequently plagiarize. Then the junior coder in question wouldn't need to wonder much about the LLM output quality either. There are enough reasons beyond the questionable quality to not use these tools.

  • Working on products people hate

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  • Perhaps it's just me, but to me this article feels like belittling the problem by not differentiating between "hated" products and "harmful" products.

    If a company makes you work on something that is hated, it's fair and good to have sympathy. If a company makes you work on something that is harmful or unethical, like many perceive Co-Pilot to be, then an article about getting user hate that doesn't talk at all about ethics feels a little tonedeaf.

    I don't know, perhaps that's just me. I certainly don't envy the writer for being employed to work on it.

  • Tech Talk: How Electron went Wayland-native, and what it means for your apps | Electron

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  • Basically, on any sane window manager no matter if Wayland or X11, you'll get the same frame for all apps for free.

    From all the big desktops it's only GNOME that somehow decided server-side decorations weren't a good idea implement, and now all Wayland apps have to hand-roll a hacky workaround. The "flat frameless window" look was Electron's GNOME workaround. What the article is describing is a more elaborate GNOME workaround. On e.g. KDE, none of these problems existed in the first place.

  • Tech Talk: How Electron went Wayland-native, and what it means for your apps | Electron

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  • This is a GNOME problem, not a Wayland problem. The article says "On X11, the window manager typically supplies a window’s title bar and frame decorations. But [...] on Wayland, all you get back from the compositor is a plain rectangle." which makes it sound like this is a Wayland problem, but this isn't true.

  • LLM Code and FOSS licenses are in conflict.

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  • We Overhauled Our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy - Another VC funded bait and switch

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  • Kate is a great minimal VS Code alternative. Sure, it's less features, but it has the basics.

  • Systemd’s New Feature Brings Age Verification Option to Linux

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  • Relevant article: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/you-the-problem-tpm2-solves.en.html

    And if anybody thought TPM provides security: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/tpm-2-0-is-a-must-they-said-it-will-improve-windows-security-they-said.13222/ https://gist.github.com/osy/45e612345376a65c56d0678834535166 https://www.sophos.com/en-us/blog/serious-security-tpm-2-0-vulns-is-your-super-secure-data-at-risk https://www.covertswarm.com/post/how-secure-are-tpm-chips

    Reader, you know what's likely most secure? FOSS code, peer-reviewed and regularly patched.

    I don't get why one would trust security theater, aka TPM and secureboot.

  • Removed

    Why does this website feel like the end of FOSS?

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  • The terms of use link goes nowhere, so I honestly don't know.

    But I feel like it doesn't matter whether it is, for the sake of discussing where gen AI seems to be leading FOSS...

    Lemmy currently seems to consider embracing it too, sadly. Feels potentially short-sighted to me, idk.

  • Removed

    Why does this website feel like the end of FOSS?

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  • Yeah, I find it scary how many projects embrace gen AI despite all the training data controversies. I've tried to convince some not to, but it's hard. Even the Linux kernel appears to be using it now. It's sad.