she/her
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I’ve spent the past few decades wanting that party to move to the left and voting for them. They did what you wanted instead and moved to the right.
I don't want Democrats to move to the right. I want people to stop hunting for a moral victory over the Democrats. Progressives voting for them is how we get them to move to the left.
Your argument is fully a straw man now.
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It will definitely lose them progressive votes. And it probably won't gain them many conservative votes. But the Democrats are still going to try anyway. They look at who voted and chase those people's votes. edit: typo
Most of the country wants a new party, but our FPTP system mathematically guarantees they will never get it.
lol
=/
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Trump's populism is christian nationalism. Specifically white christian nationalism. So it's not going to look Bernie's populism. And those do whistles are, or at least were before they became so overt, dog whistles.
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It’s fatalism.
My point here is, “The system that only allows for getting worse will never get better.”
Years of US history demonstrate that is not the case. People have demonstrated it is possible to make things better with our democracy. Women's suffrage and the civil rights movement happened in the US in the 20th century.
Things have been getting worse since Reagan brought neoliberalism to the mainstream. The US wasn't perfect. And on some social issues like gay marriage things have gotten better. But we are where we are now thanks to over forty years of neoliberism allowing the rich to extract wealth from everyone else. We have entered the billionaires forming an oligarchy around a dictator stage of late-stage capitalism.
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Fixed. Thanks.
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I live in the US where fascists have put targets on the backs of trans people.
The same fascists have also pledged to let Israel finish their genocide. Weird you don't care about that.
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It's not enough. The House elections happen every two years. AIPAC can successfully primary progressive politicians if we don't vote for them.
Murphy spells it out. Democrats are moving to the right to get people who aren't 100% with them on social and cultural issues. There is a huge base of people in the US that support Israel. And they tend to be consistent older voters.
https://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/aging/articles/why-older-citizens-are-more-likely-to-vote
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Trump ran on a populist platform that wasn't limited to economic populism. Harris didn't have any compelling narrative whatsoever.
It’s the electorate stupid!
It's worth while for the electorate to learn the right lessons. Otherwise there wouldn't be people in this comment section trying to get everyone to learn the wrong lessons.
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Why must one of those parties be the Democrats? I don’t see no fucking Whigs around, do you?
Because unlike the Wigs, the Democrats are not divided over slavery. They can just move to the right on contemporary issues as Chris Murphy details here.
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Me not going quietly to the death camps is me being selfish and rich according to you, got it. Real ally. =P
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There was no policy difference between Harris and Biden on the genocide
The policy difference was Harris wants to end the war.
you’re going to bat for.
I want people to live free or die trying. You want to be morally pure.
It does not matter how big a majority Democrats get. They find the no votes. It’s how they killed the public option when they had a supermajority.
They managed to get to exactly 60 votes with independents twice. That's how Joe Lieberman was able to kill the public option by threatening a filibuster. He fits the white moderate description to a T. It wouldn't fair to do it without the Republicans. The Democrats are neoliberals, institutionalists. It only took one vote to kill the public option. They of course weren't willing to enact systemic change to get results. I am aware. This is what I'm arguing.
Our refusal to fix it is part of how we got here. And things will continue to get worse if we don’t take steps to fix it.
They were successful at doing the party’s work. There are always just enough Manchins.
Neat conspiracy theory. Manchin owns a coal company. Sinema was bought. The Democratic Party had to work around the interests of elites, which is another reason why we need wealth redistribution.
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No, the far-right exists because of late-stage capitalism and over 40 years of neoliberalism pushed by both mainstream parties since Reagan. The Democrats lost in large part because of their refusal to adopt a populist narrative. They didn't go left enough. But refusing to vote for them or espousing accelerationist rhetoric because of that is self-defeating, harms minorities, and opens to the door to devastating climate change scenarios. edit: typo
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And oh shucky dern, his hands were always conveniently tied. Except when it came time to sell weapons for genocide.
You don't actually care about minorities. Even more people would dead by now under four years of Trump. That's immaterial to you.
Democrats consider minorities expendable in their unending quest for Republican votes.
So do you. Except you want moral victory over the Democrats.
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No, I'm one of the trans people you use in your pursuit of moral victories over the Democrats.
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Biden taking credit for the work of rail workers whose right to strike he opposed is rich.
But like he did help them though.
You want solidarity in one direction only. You want the left to worship the Democrats no matter who they throw under the bus.
No, I want people to actually care about minorities instead of virtue signaling. I'm not interested in being currency in your game of moral purity with the Democrats.
You already got your actual victory over the left. You just want critics to shut up about it.
You got your victory over the Democrats at the expense of minorities, but you want 2026 and 2028 too. Well, Republicans might not even give us those elections or an opposition party at all now, we'll find out.
What power? The left, in your estimation, has only the power to lovingly smooch the ass of the center as they move to the right and ONLY the right.
We have the power to stop fascists from taking power, killing people, and destroying the environment. We can even educate people and co-opt the Democratic Party. I recommend you read what I wrote.
THEY. SUPPORTED. GENOCIDE.
Biden supported genocide. Members of his own administration pushed back against him in open letters. You don't care about the Palestinians. Genocide is a word you can type in all caps that you think will win you arguments on the internet. It holds no material implications with you whatsoever or you would be railing against Trump's promise of indefinite genocide.
As someone closer to the chopping block than I would like, I am no longer phased by that bullshit. I've got the right screaming at me that they want me dead, and I've got people like you on the left screaming at me to be silent as they drag me the rest of the way there. The Palestinians are worse off now because of people like you and your virtue signaling and so is everyone else.
Your vote is appreciated. Your rhetoric is not. We don't live in a moral universe. This universe is physics based. You acting in a way that is consistent with your subjective moral values isn't going to help anyone. In fact, it's going to let Republicans and other fascists all over the world run right over the people you claim to care about. Learn to analyze strategies based on their utility. edit: typo
The Democrats are the tool we have at our disposal. I intended to use that tool for as much as it can be used for. Help me.
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We do have this power. We elected Joe Biden in 2020. Your argument pretends we don't at the expense of minorities and our ability to prevent the worst outcomes of climate change.
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No, it's a problem for the people empowering the right by refusing to vote for the leaning right of center, neoliberal Democrats. People are attempting to get a moral victory over the Democrats by refusing to vote for them. This strategy makes minorities the cost of doing business.
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Look, I don’t know if you guys haven’t been paying attention
I've been talking to people about climate change on this site.
(which it really didn’t in the long run did it?)
If we give up before we succeed then that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Democrats are neoliberals. They aren't going to solve our problems. But them being in power will give us the time to educate people and co-opt their party.
I give my argument about what that involves in more detail in this same comment section here: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/11577918
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I’m not.
You are. I even gave the receipts. They were different, but people on the left didn't want to hear it.
Democrats are great at promising shit they have no intention of doing and then gleefully announcing that their hands are tied.
That's what a refusal to remove the filibuster and a razor thin majority will do. Manchin and Sinema were devastatingly effective in their obstruction. That's what a systemic issue can do in a nutshell. With the Senate, a tiny minority can overturn the will of the majority. Our refusal to fix it is part of how we got here. And things will continue to get worse if we don't take steps to fix it.
When running for office, that's what a policy is.
Neither do you.
With only a max of 60 votes at any given time and the filibuster, he only needed one. Democrats had to get rid of the filibuster. But as institutionalists they were never planning on doing that.
I guess they thought it wouldn't be fair to do it without Republicans.
Vote in elections for Democrats. Like we did in 2020.
We need to co-opt the Democratic Party to get socialist and even progressive policies through. But even currently Democrats would have gotten more done if not for Manchin and Sinema.
Refusing to leverage power is playing right into the hands of corporate shit. The worse part is you're doing it for free. Might as well work Musk's Doge department for no pay while you're at it. He's looking for people like you.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/14/elon-musk-trump