You have thrown out the fact that the vast majority of Taiwanese people support maintaining the status quo and you are a chauvinist because you're trying to put your perspective into their mouths regardless of what they actually say.
I don't see any reason to continue this when you literally just throw out any facts that you don't like, completely arbitrarily. You are clearly a chauvinist.
Why would it matter if the us had missiles in Taiwan if China didn’t want to take it over? The us can place missiles in South Korea, Japan or you know, ICBMs are a thing.
Taiwan is much closer to many Chinese population centers. ICBMs are easier to detect and shoot down than missiles on your doorstep.
Also, to be clear, you think the US concern over missiles in Cuba was completely spurious, right?
Your reasoning is so flawed, why would it be more likely for the US to succeed in a coup in china if Taiwan was free?
I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't say anything about Taiwan being free making it easier for the US to stage a coup (whether or not that's true). The point is that being peaceful and democratic does not in any way placate the US.
When your "opinion" on a poll involves throwing out 96% of respondents because they didn't say that Taiwan should just declare independence, yeah it kinda is.
I have no idea where on earth you picked up this idea that you can just exclude whatever data you don't like and call it an "opinion" or an "interpretation." I guess those are just your "alternate facts," huh?
Sure, and given that China very much implies, if not threatens a war if they try to go independent officially - that’s likely to temper many responses.
Cool, that sounds like a great reason why maintaining the status quo is a good idea. We should probably listen to the majority, who wisely consider the actual ramifications of these options instead of fools who only care about hypotheticals.
Him doing that wasn’t the USA doing that though.
Sure, whatever, I don't care if he was or not. You've completely failed to establish any relevance to this line of questioning so I don't give a shit either way. I've entertained you on it longer than I should have already.
“Plenty of people in the US ruling class, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. I’m criticizing your position.”
That was after you started this irrelevant line of questioning.
I didn’t “throw them out” - I simply stated that I think the country would be on a process to independence now if the pressures from China weren’t there.
You arbitrarily excluded their responses. Again, "if this" "if that" it doesn't matter. Taiwanese people are answering the polls based on what they think is best for them in the situation as it actually exists, and we should be looking at the situation the same way. Not basing opinions based on imagined hypotheticals with nothing to do with reality.
That isn’t telling Taiwan to do anything. That’s just him running his mouth. US politicians say that without specifically petitioning for or directing Taiwan to officially repudiate their historical claims and declare independence.
The US formally recognizing Taiwan would be a huge deviation from the status quo.
How would you evaluate it seriously? Why would this make sense even as you’re clearly not being serious?
I don't see what you're confused about. If you can throw out 96% of responses in a poll and call it an "interpretation," then why can't I throw out 99.88% of votes and call it an interpretation too? Is there a line somewhere between 96% and 99.88%?
You said specifically that people of power in the west
This is true, but quote me where I said this.
What did he say specifically encouraging Taiwan to do this?
"Taiwan is a sovereign and free country." "Taiwan is independent." "I believe the age of strategic ambiguity should be over." A clear and direct deviation from the status quo of strategic ambiguity.
I’m telling you how I interpret the polls. Giving you my opinion.
What a fascinating perspective.
In that case, my "interpretation" of the 2024 US presidential election is that, once you exclude all the votes for bourgeois parties, The Party For Socialism and Liberation won the election with 171k votes. Three cheers for President De la Cruz!
Name them openly calling for Taiwan to declare independence.
Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, for one.
Again, establish relevance please. Again, I am criticizing your position.
I’m just saying that it seems likely to me that if China were to back-off, that Taiwan would very quickly officially declare independence and rebrand.
That's not what the polls show and I don't see how that's relevant regardless. If space aliens attacked, maybe Taiwan would seek unification with China for mutual protection. But there aren't any space aliens so who gives a shit? That's not the world we live in. The polls are based on the world that actually exists, as they should be.
And again: I’m just a random person. Who of note, or of influence is trying to encourage this?
Plenty of people in the US ruling class, but I don't see how that's relevant. I'm criticizing your position.
How is the way I read a poll means I am trying to tell Taiwan what to do?
Because "the way you read the poll" is by throwing out the overwhelming majority of responses and focusing exclusively on the people who agree with your position.
Do you think people answer polls like this with no understanding or regard of actual geopolitical reality, or something?
No, what I think is that actual geopolitical reality is a relevant factor that shouldn't just be arbitrarily disregarded, as you seem to want. Incorporating material conditions into your poll response is not grounds for it being thrown out, jfc.
No, eliminating the safe, friction-free option of status quo shows that 4% want to officially seek independence.
The majority wants to maintain the status quo without moving in either direction. A supermajority wants to maintain the status quo while moving in one direction or the other. But all of their voices are ignored by chauvinistic Westerners who want to ignore what they want and force the issue because that's what they want, and the actual popular will can easily be written off and disregarded with these nonsense excuses like "they only say that because they're being influenced by the existing material conditions" and "if we ignore 95% of the responses, people actually agree with me."
Reducing it to a binary choice is the very definition of a false dichotomy.
I didn’t say anything should change. Just that they do not want to be incorporated into China.
That's not what you said. What you actually said was "Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?" That sounds a lot like calling for formal independence, not the status quo.
No, he would not achieve the same thing if he "calmed down." Because the reason the US wants missiles on Taiwan has absolutely nothing to do with how "calm" Xi Jinping is.
It also has nothing to do with how democratic China is. In fact, it's the opposite. The US prefers to have anti-democratic governments because those are the governments most willing to hand over all the country's resources.
Tell me, how did "not being a dictator" and "remaining calm" work out for Mohammad Mossadegh, the peaceful, progressive, democratically elected prime minister of Iran, who was deposed in a CIA coup in favor of a fascist monarch who hunted down anyone to his left with secret police?
You are completely delusional and ignorant of history and reality.
Ok, in that case I "accept your comment as it is, but I'm contextualizing it according to my understanding."
I just can't believe you murdered that many puppies.