Technical question, if it's e2ee, it means videos can't be transcoded? Modern smartphones encode video at a bitrate that doesn't allow real time streaming on 4g
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- 3 yr. ago
- Posts
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- 136
- Joined
- 3 yr. ago
This is a photo gallery that can replace Google photos, while using nextcloud as a photo gallery is a proof of concept that can't be even considered alpha quality
When on my personal install the music app was broken after an update for months, I didn't complain at all. Because I went to see who was the maintainer: owncloud. Not their fault. In this case was my fault. Definitely my fault and without sarcasm. A third party plugin is expected to have problems after updates. Completely understandable. They're even competitors.
First party plugins instead, MUST work at all times versus the latest stable release. It's the reason I didn't check compatibility.
This is the concept I want to say. It's not hard. I'm not saying "the update process must be idiot proof". When shit like this happens, it completely erodes trust in users. It's not stable, it's beta. It's a tiny detail. It's just a number on the manifest. What does it cost to update that number to 30 for the forms app? (The "incompatible" version runs perfectly fine when the check is overridden)
But no, let's defend this behavior of moving fast and breaking things for no reason, like that issue thread on GitHub where users are rightfully pissed that the Windows nextcloud desktop client reboots without confirmation and fanboys are dismissing it "eh the cloud indicators in explorer.exe are so important, must reboot at all times, what's the problem"
Do you agree that first party stuff must work? (unless it's discontinued)
Would you expect Microsoft Office 365 being disabled after upgrading to Microsoft Windows 11?
And finally, how I persuaded the it department. Here I make a list of all the members:
We were just searching a way to host a worthless survey that nobody is watching instead of paying $350 to Surveymonkey. We drank the marketing cool aid and assumed that something heavily promoted just 6 months ago would be supported. But this is unreasonable.
Solution 1: waste a week doing your suggested way of multiple installs and custom unit tests and every quarter check carefully everything because nextcloud "stable" is as stable as a house of cards.
Solution 2: delete nextcloud and write a form in PHP+HTML in an afternoon, don't have the same problem with nextcloud 31 next quarter.
Ok i get it, it's best practice to do rushed releases without QA because users are the free testers.
They definitely had no way to know that their own app was incompatible, this is definitely a problem of the stupid user. Idiot user who believed their newsletter "update now, hub 9 is the best thing ever". The user should have known that stable = untested beta
Also, this issue happened exclusively to me in the whole world, because everyone else isn't an idiot like me and checks 30+ release notes scattered in 30 different repositories to guess any incompatibility. I was lazy and only checked the main notes! Such an idiot! Why I didn't check every single installed app? It's just 30! Nextcloud devs couldn't have known that nextcloud devs didn't update the manifest of the forms app! I should have checked before! Completely my fault!
Now if you excuse me I got an update to the Windows nextcloud desktop app and it must reboot after update because reasons even if there's a GitHub issue with 200 angry comments about that. No wait! Stupid me! First I have to fire a VM and use a whole week to write automated tests that account for every possible combination of settings, language, power management, installed apps and so on. Otherwise I could lose a worthless survey that nobody reads and that will definitely get me fired!
go to watch who is the maintainer of nextcloud forms, then see if they could have known that NC 30 was about to go out or not
It's definitely not unreasonable that if I make product X and I make product Y, and they're not compatible, then a bit of warning is suggested.
Again, wordpress updates break plugins all the time, but automattic plugins (same people of wordpress) never break. Coincidence? They just launch a new wordpress without checking if woocommerce or jetpack don't work?
I don't know if maybe it's my bad english in explaining it or it's your comprehension skills that lack something.
I write it again for the 10th time: I'm 100% ok having 1-2 weeks of downtime, and this is why i do it live. It simply doesn't make sense to dedicate several hours every month on testing if all i need is getting 3 useless surveys filled per year. If it was essential for work and i needed 99.99999% uptime i would directly subscribe typeform or surveymonkey. If tomorrow my install completely bricks and disappears in thin air, i would have lost 30 minutes of time and no valuable data. I literally spent more time designing the logo for the instance than managing it. This is just to state how unimportant the data stored on it.
This post wasn't made about "oh no i lost millions and all my irreplaceable data thanks to nextcloud stupid updates" but how stupid is to release something that breaks features that they're using as selling point.
ok, now that we established that my IT skills are lacking and i should be fired because one single survey couldn't be filled, this is the release notes: https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/release_notes/upgrade_to_30.html
Please tell me where they say that this feature is automatically disabled and also tell me why you think that this is acceptable.
I don't understand why you think that is acceptable.
I even can't find other examples where a release is so rushed, that selling points are disabled without ETA. I never saw for Libreoffice 24 dropping support for opendocument files for a couple months just because they had to meet a self imposed deadline
ok, please tell me where in the release notes they say that the forms app will be automatically disabled without warning after update, thanks https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/release_notes/upgrade_to_30.html
You again commented on the docker upgrade comment that I said it's irrelevant. It's really like saying "if you wore pants that day, they wouldn't have done that, it's your fault". It doesn't make sense to spend $1000 in operating costs to host a useless survey that gets 3 responses a year. If it breaks for a week nobody dies.
Focus on how they're moving fast and breaking things, ok? It's not normal that official plugins don't support the latest stable release. It's not an alpha, it's not a beta, it's stable. Stable means everything needs to work. Official plugins need to support the latest stable release. It's acceptable only if this was a third party plugin made by a hobbyist in their free time
WordPress updates also break many plugins but it never happened that a stable release blocked official ones like woocommerce.
By the way, now I have learned that the latest version of nextcloud is a public beta and it's better to always stay one version behind. So why don't they call it public beta?
Us too, we only use it as a filelink provider for thunderbird and to host a useless survey that's going to get filled once a quarter. That's why nobody noticed the survey was disabled and that's why we're not doing multistage testing in multiple virtual machines. We are a super small company and ok with something that one day can be 3 days offline. Otherwise it would be cheaper to pay $100 to Surveymonkey and $100 to Dropbox
Manual docker upgrade issued my me after reading the official blog and newsletter. The upgrade notes described the new version as the best thing ever and didn't mention that one of their selling points would be disabled without any notice.
I'm starting to see a pattern in those comments like "why did you wear a skirt that night? It looks like you asked for it..."
I have daily backups and hourly zfs snapshot. The problem is that, because nobody used the useless survey plugin, I have no idea when it broke. It could have been yesterday or it could have been 4 months ago
I wrote signups but I meant survey (in another comment I wrote "I would have never checked the useless survey")
I'm not arguing that my procedure is right (it is not), I'm arguing that nextcloud rushed the release in an incredibly unprofessional way.
When it's the last time that Canonical, in the hurry to release Ubuntu xx.yy broke snapd without?
When it's the last time that Apple, in the hurry to release iOS xx, made it totally incompatible with iMovie and had no timeline on when it would be fixed?
When it's the last time that Microsoft pushed a Windows update that disabled Microsoft office and left it unfixed for months?
Nextcloud decided to take care of the forms app. They decided to promote it as a selling point. They decided when to release the update. They decided to still push the update even if their own form app didn't get any new release in 4 months and isn't compatible.
They aren't contractually obligated to release a new, indistinguishable version (except some new bits that make it incompatible) every quarter.
Not ready? Delay one week. Still not ready? Delay an additional week. It came out that it needs a complete rewrite and it will take months? Write a note in the blog saying that feature is no more a selling point but now it is deprecated/unmaintained/unsupported and it will be automatically disabled without confirmation.
As someone said, a good app is only late until it ships, a bad app is bad until it's patched. Why being perpetually bad with updates that nobody is asking?
the upgrade command is sent manually, it's not automated and it's not unattended. It would have made ZERO difference if i tagged 29 and then in test tagged 30. The upgrade would have not failed, it would have given ZERO warnings, I would have seen that everything worked as expected (because who tests the useless survey that is filled once a semester?) and I would have pushed the update to production.
Exactly, they have a release schedule, why their own plugin, that they're heavily promoting as a feature, isn't following that? If for some reason the forms app isn't ready for that date, why not postponing the launch instead of having it broken for who know how many months?
It's not a plugin made by someone else in their free time. They knew that by updating to NC 30 that feature that was marketed just 6 months ago would be disabled, so at least have the decency to write it in the release notes. I subscribe to the newsletter and the RSS for what, just enjoy the marketing buzzwords?
It's like if Microsoft releases an operating system with a buggy and broken taskbar because of a rushed self imposed deadline and fixes it one year later.
I have daily Borg backups held for at least one year but the problem is that the issue came out at least two weeks ago and nobody noticed. It's better to have nothing (customer gets error page when viewing useless survey that nobody is watching) rather to restore such a old backup (everyone loses 2-4 weeks of data)
They're releasing a new version every two month or so and dropping them rapidly from support, pinning it with a tag means that in 12 months the install would be exploitable.
Now, I did directly to production because this is low priority stuff, but it would have happened even with a testing stage. I would have never noticed that the forms apps was disabled, the system disabled it without any notification.
You would expect that an official app supports the latest release, no?
This wasn't an app released by a nobody in their free time, this is a main feature heavily advertised in their blog. Look by yourself:
https://nextcloud.com/blog/nextcloud-forms-to-keep-your-surveys-private/
It's not unreasonable to get pissed when 6 months after that blog post it doesn't support the latest release anymore.
I wiped a whole drive (luckily it was filled with a redundant backup) with the docker image, as the behavior was (or still is, don't know if it was fixed) to
rm -rf .and replace with fresh stuff ifoccisn't found. So in the docker compose I accidentally mistyped the wrong volume as /mnt/disk2 instead of /mnt/disk3 and it erased itYes no staging because it's something used at most by 2 concurrent users, we were ok with 95% reliability (we discovered it was disabled after at least two weeks lol)
Otherwise we would just have signed up to one of the many cloud forms sites at $100/year
Backups daily but it's unthinkable to revert something like nextcloud to a months old one
Subscribed to both newsletter and RSS feed to know about issues (the command to update the docker images isn't automated but manually issued). The maintainer of the forms app is nextcloud itself so any incompatibility should have been written in red bold characters in the blog posts and newsletter.
Encryption in self hosted when you're hosting only your personal data isn't really a positive feature
For the case of ente, having all the photos in encrypted blobs in a minio container, means you have to export the content every night using their cli tool, verify it, repeat for every family member, then backup the result