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  • [Edit: I see the problem, even with a self-hosted instance of 1, when you comment on posts in other instances that data is no longer held on your server, so you don’t own it and can’t control it directly, is that right?]

    Not quite. It's more like Bluesky works, but also not quite.


    First, a note on the idea of "your" data. The law gives people rights over certain data. For example, copyright gives people rights over certain content, which translates to rights over data encoding that content. You may think of a movie as being yours because you have the file on your device. The copyright holder still considers it their data and will therefore demand control over your device through DRM.

    Rights over data always means rights over what other people do with their computers and devices. Unfortunately, Fediverse users are not very tech-savvy. They demand more rights and regulations and then condemn Big Tech for the predictable consequences. They pull on one end of the string and blame dark powers when the other end moves.

    The European GDPR also creates rights over certain data. You have GDPR rights over all data that is directly or indirectly related to you. For example, if I write about the current French President, then Emmanuel Macron has GDPR rights over that data, even if I don't mention him by name. Of course, his rights will be limited by freedom of information. Also, these rights are rarely recognized outside of Europe.

    What legal rights you have over data depends on your location. Copyright is internationally recognized, but its precise reach depends on location; eg the US has Fair Use. Even at a specific location, those rights depend on context, with a lot of gray area. This cannot be implemented technically.


    With Lemmy it's like this: When a user on an instance subscribes to a community, all (recent-ish) posts and comments in that community are downloaded to that instance. Users on that instance are served from their own instance.

    Generally, a Fediverse instance keeps a copy of whatever data its local users might need. If your instance was the only source for some data, then every user in the whole world needing it would have to access your server every time they want it. Every user whether registered or unregistered would hit your server every time they reload. If a server buckles under the strain, you just get missing data. It just wouldn't scale.

    Bluesky has Personal Data Servers (PDSs) for that role. Those are the definitive store of some user's data. This can be self-hosted easily. The data from all users is aggregated by a "relay", If a PDS is like a personal web server, then a relay is like a search engine. That's the one that you can't self-host; takes big time capital expenditure.

    I don't think the Fediverse has a solution for this. Imagine Mastodon or Lemmy with 100M+ users. How do you find stuff? Well, making a crawler and search engine for the Fediverse would be simple. But that would also take major capital expenditure.

    The Bluesky relay combines all activity into the "firehose". Anyone can write apps that get data from the firehose and present them to users. When Bluesky blocked Mississippi, that meant that the official Bluesky App did that. Other Apps still work in that state.


    Final bit: When you self-host, you need to be your own legal department. When you use a service, you are shielded to some degree. Eg when you infringe copyright, a social media service will usually just take it down. If you infringe copyright on your web server, or even via torrent, you may get a pretty hefty bill.

    Fedi-users cheer when Meta gets sued or settled with a huge fine. Well, good luck running your own Facebook server. Fedi-users mostly aren't very tech-savvy but when it gets to law, they are positively delusional.

  • I’m surprised they had a robot radiation hardened enough to actually try.

    It's not like this was the first time, such a situation came up. And it's not like we have to guess what plan B looks like.

  • Be strong now. Mastodon is a gGmbH. That's the German version and translates to public benefit limited liability corporation.

  • I mushed a lot of things together in my post. Copyright and political censorship have very different motives behind them. The point is that, to enforce copyright, you need extensive surveillance of online content and the means to shut down the exchange of information. That requires an extremely expensive technical infrastructure. But once that is in place, you can use it for political censorship without having to fear pushback over the economic cost that would come even from politically sympathetic actors. Conversely, if you introduce political censorship, you might get support by the copyright industry, including the news media, for helping their economic interests.

    Where it gets to political censorship, the paradox of tolerance is exactly the lunacy that I'm talking about. In mad defiance of all historical fact, there is belief that liberalism is weak, that political dissidents must be persecuted, information suppressed. Never in history has democracy fallen because of a commitment to tolerance. All too often, they fall because majorities feel their personal comfort threatened by minorities and support the strong leader who will "sweep out with the iron broom" (as a German idiom goes).

    Do you notice how that Wikipedia article has nothing to say on history?

  • But entering a pornography website is the equivalent of entering an adult video store where the clerk cannot see you, cannot hear your voice.

    There's the problem. I was tempted to call this Boomer logic, but that would extremely unfair to Boomers. We are only seeing this now, that the Boomers are on the way out.

    I think the Boomers understood better how this works. It's not like entering a store. It's like making a phone call to the store, and the store may be on the other side of the world. The Boomers understood borders, long distance calls, international mail.

    Now the digital natives are taking over. And they understand nothing beyond tapping and swiping.

    Spoilered is a post I wrote earlier. Just so you know what's coming.

    The problem is that meat-space logic is applied to the cyberspace (as it might have been said in the 90ies).

    You go into a store and the clerk sees you and knows your age. If it’s borderline, then they ask for ID. They are applying that thinking to internet services.

    Where this falls down is that no ordinary Mastodon instance can comply with the regulations of the close to 200 hundred countries in the world. Of course, just like 4chan, many wouldn’t want to out of principle.

    The only way to make this work is to introduce another meat-space thing: Border posts. You need a Great Firewall of the [Local Nation]. At physical border posts, guards check if goods comply with local regulations. We need virtual border posts to check if data is imported and exported in compliance with local regulations.

    Such a thing, a virtual Schengen border, was briefly considered in the EU about 15 years ago. It went nowhere at the time. But if you look at EU regulations, you can see that the foundations are already laid, most obviously with the GDPR but also the DSM, DMA, DSA, CRA, …

    Eventually, the border will be closed to protect our values; to enforce our laws. We will lock out those American and Chinese Big Tech companies that steal our data. We will only allow their European branches and strictly monitor their communications abroad. We will be taking back control, as the Brexiteers sloganized it. Freedom is just another word for having to ask the government for permission when you enter a country. And increasingly, it is another word for having to ask permission for how you use your own computer.

    It won’t be some shady backroom deal. Look here. People in this community love these regulations. Europeans here are happy to tell US companies to “FO if they don’t want to follow our laws”. Well, the Great Firewall of Europe is how you do that.

    https://lemmy.world/comment/19119670

  • Yes. I had always worried about the copyright industry. That was the big money pushing for censorship. Controlling access and exchange of information is part of their business model and even personal ideology. But I don't know how much this has actually to do with them, and how much is simply the will to power.

    What I did not see coming at all was how the left would completely 180 on these issues. That, at least, I blame on the copyright industry.

    Right wing people have screeched about "the intolerant left" forever, but I always ignored the obvious hypocrisy. I took it as a debate on what is permissible in polite society. But now Europe is at a point where there is simply a consensus against free speech. Only the most illiberal forces will be able to use these legal weapons to full effect. That will be the extreme right.

  • The problem is that meat-space logic is applied to the cyberspace (as it might have been said in the 90ies).

    You go into a store and the clerk sees you and knows your age. If it's borderline, then they ask for ID. They are applying that thinking to internet services. And so are you. You are just trying to figure out a better way to ask for ID.

    The UK doesn't have a system of mandatory national ID. Brits feel that that is totalitarian. So obviously, they do not use the scheme you propose. It's not their meat-space logic.

    Where this falls down is that no ordinary Mastodon instance can comply with the regulations of the close to 200 hundred countries in the world. Of course, just like 4chan, many wouldn't want to out of principle.

    The only way to make this work is to introduce another meat-space thing: Border posts. You need a Great Firewall of the [Local Nation]. At physical border posts, guards check if goods comply with local regulations. We need virtual border posts to check if data is imported and exported in compliance with local regulations.

    Such a thing, a virtual Schengen border, was briefly considered in the EU about 15 years ago. It went nowhere at the time. But if you look at EU regulations, you can see that the foundations are already laid, most obviously with the GDPR but also the DSM, DMA, DSA, CRA, ...

    Eventually, the border will be closed to protect our values; to enforce our laws. We will lock out those American and Chinese Big Tech companies that steal our data. We will only allow their European branches and strictly monitor their communications abroad. We will be taking back control, as the Brexiteers sloganized it. Freedom is just another word for having to ask the government for permission when you enter a country. And increasingly, it is another word for having to ask permission for how you use your own computer.

    It won't be some shady backroom deal. Look here. People in this community love these regulations. Europeans here are happy to tell US companies to "FO if they don't want to follow our laws". Well, the Great Firewall of Europe is how you do that.

  • What gets me is how many people in this very community have the same level of ignorance. And on top of that, they don't understand that these laws also apply to the very service they are using.

  • Hast du da eine Quelle dazu? Soweit ich weiß, verlangt Apple, dass alle Apps "notarized" sein müssen. Also das, was Google jetzt auch einführt.

    Für Apps im offiziellen Store ist das explizit EU-Vorschrift. Warum sollte die EU was dagegen haben, wenn das freiwillig ausgedehnt wird (falls es freiwillig ist)?

  • For those who don't get it: That's promo for the Schwarzenegger + DeVito movie Junior (1994). Schwarzenegger and DeVito play scientists who have developed a new drug. A little self-experimentation has Schwarzenegger pregnant.

    Social media critters would so explode today.

  • Photo of the expectant couple and their doctor:

  • George Carlin, I think.

  • There is going to be so much wailing and gnashing of teeth when the settlement is made public. So many people are just completely out of touch.

    Free advice: When that happens, have a little think about what news sources caused you to wallow in disinformation. Consider that that makes you completely incapable of advocating for your own interests or even understanding where those interests lie.

  • The complaint is hilarious. So on brand.

    I guess they'll win. It's going to be interesting to see what happens then.

  • Freedom is always and exclusively freedom for the one who thinks differently.

  • The DSA requires people offering apps ("traders") to provide certain information. For example: address, email, and phone number must be made public. When Apple introduced that, this also caused some outrage and calls for EU regulation. Despite the fact that this was exactly the regulation called for. Hence, why I mentioned that trusted trader scheme.

    Google may be legally required to do this. I'm not sure how the DSA is to be interpreted on this. It's certainly not a stretch (see Article 31). It's out of touch to believe the EU will push against this.

  • The Cyber Resilience Act may also have something to do with this.

  • You mean when they forced Apple to implement the "trusted trader" scheme.

  • For Bitcoin, you mean. That will be in 2040 or so. Plenty of time to patch it.