A sinner and a Fediverse Advocate.
Proud citizen of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 🇬🇧 Proud citizen of the European Union 🇪🇺
I hate strawmen.
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Disclaimer: not really The King
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Me: "Everyone's hating on him. Lemmy is so sensitive, it's probably over nothing"
Finds this comment
ohhh, ohhhhhhhh
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Don't have to wear a condom if you don't have sex 😎
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Don't like the guy, but I think he meant "weakness" as vulnerability, aka, if you want to attack the west, take advantage of them.
Empathy is good, taking advantage of the empathetic? Not so much.
That's awful. You think Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, and others should all burn forever?
If you don't want anything to do with Jesus, He respects your decision.
Lucifer tortures people because God made him to torture people
If you're talking about hell, no he doesn't. Hell was made to torture him. Hell wasn't made for Humans. Heaven was.
Meanwhile, God Himself commanded His people to take slaves, rape, and murder, over and over and over and over. I'm sure you take comfort in that, too.
Rape was never commanded. God executed his judgement on the evil and the wicked. You cannot be mad at God for wiping out the wicked.
I showed you the scriptural references regarding the earth and man being cursed
Infants do bad stuff too. They lie and steal and are full of deceit
It's not necessarily Christian dogma. In fact, people have diverse views surrounding the beginning of Genesis as a whole. The fact of the matter is, suffering on earth isn't caused by God, it's a product of The Fall.
Quite frankly, I find comfort in that the scum of this earth will be punished. I don't need to bear grudges, as God would sort it out. The apocalypse is what this wretched race of people deserve. You see it in the news, we rape, kill and murder each other over lines on maps and money. We were given this earth by Him and we are actively destroying it. It's actually so merciful of God to even let us live than to just end us all this very second.
If you're talking about Job, Job makes it clear that it's Lucifer who tortures people. Lucifer only tortures people when God lifts His protection. But in the end, Job was not only compensated on earth, but is in heaven. I doubt right now that thousands of years later, Job enjoying all of that thousands of years of glory really cares about what happened for those few short decades thousands of years ago.
He punished the evil infants? So what?
Same reason as why sending someone to prison for committing murder isn't evil. It is justice. Punishing evil isn't evil. It's Justice. And God is Perfect, therefore He's Perfectly Just.
The King James Version was written in 1600s English. The meaning of words have changed a lot over that time period. You can't just say the meaning of the Bible changes because the English language has changed. That's just stupidity. The modern translation of that word is closer to "calamity"
I think you need to look at the wider theological view of the text regarding the earth being cursed than what was literally written down. The earth being cursed essentially could have brought about animal suffering, natural disasters, droughts, etc. Another view one could have had is that they still could have happened but they wouldn't have actually hurt people due to human mortality being introduced by the fall.
Finally, someone debating me in a kind manner!
Our pets destroy our stuff or hurt other pets
There is probably a natural instict to it. Eg, if your rabbit chews the table leg, it was probably trying to sharpen it's teeth. If a dog attacks another pet, it probably felt threatened. It didn't do it for the sake of malice.
This doesn't address the issue
I think that's oversimplifying it a bit, sure they had knowledge that it was wrong to eat the fruit, just not about everything else, eg, nudity. They ate the fruit out of malice.
If you have something I'm not aware of
Genesis 3:17-19
And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
Romans 8:18-23
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Essentially, sin cursed the earth. Natural disasters are a part of that.
Onto politics... (Although I don't think it's political to say such a thing is evil)
But the reasons poor nations are poor are very well understood and very well documented, and invoking "sin" is not necessary to explain it. They may lack resources to harvest, or lack the means of harvesting resources themselves, or have their resources stolen via what is basically slave labor by western capitalist countries. They may not be able to set up capital generating infrastructure due to the aforementioned resource deficit... They might be plagued by droughts, or wars, or have geography that makes trade difficult, or unstable/corrupt governments, or limited education, or any number of socioeconomic phenomena, all of which we can objectively measure and directly link to the state of impoverished areas.
This isn't an excuse. There are other parts of the world over brimming with fruit. Why do that part of the world not send their fruit over? And a lot of these poor countries do have natural resources, yet those in power keep the reaping for themselves while their citizens suffer. ie, "a diamond mine is still profitable with dying slaves". Overall, the state of many of these countries is due to greed. Which is sinful. The love of money is the root of all evil.
Historically and legally, LGBTQ folks have been marginalized because of abrahamic religions instilling prejudice against us into the biggest systems of societal power in the world. Not to mention the subsequent scapegoating against us by the governments spawned from said systems.
Marginalising and instilling prejudice against a group of people is sinful.
People of color.... Do I even need to explain that one? Sinning simply doesn't need to be invoked to explain or understand any of these things.
I'll assume what happened in the USA. Which yes, that very much was caused by sin. People bought their ancestors like property, then when they were "freed" (after a civil war!), they had their reparations taken away. Once again, greed. And then they were discriminated against purely for the colour of their skin until a few decades ago. Now they are marginalised due to their ancestors never being able to actually have a fair chance and pass wealth or opportunity onto their children at best. And at worst, these racist systems possibly even still exist. So that is a prime example of human suffering caused by sin - once again, those who thought they could own another human as property.
Genesis 3:17-19
And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
Romans 8:18-23
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Essentially, sin cursed the earth. Natural disasters are a part of that.
The King James version isn't even 500 years old...
What you're asking here is essentially less about the fall theologically, and more about "How do you know Christianity is true", correct?
Without darkness you can never notice light
That's the King James Version, an old translation, the meaning of "evil" has changed. A better translation of it would be "calamity" or "disaster" which God does do to punish sin.
Sure, God had knowledge Satan would turn against Him, but you could also give birth to a child with knowledge that it'll have a disability. That's not the same as giving it a disability.
What if someone is a pyromaniac and letting them set fires to people's houses improves their wellbeing?
Take responsibility big man