A sinner and a Fediverse Advocate.
Proud citizen of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 🇬🇧 Proud citizen of the European Union 🇪🇺
I hate strawmen.
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Disclaimer: not really The King
The treatment plan is "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved". It's more like being killed by misunderstanding or misinterpreting the treatment plan. Which can be deadly
It says "after they had understood it" and doesn't imply writing.
This is backed by 2:74
Even then your hearts became hardened like a rock or even harder, for some rocks gush rivers; others split, spilling water; while others are humbled in awe of Allah. And Allah is never unaware of what you do.
It seems to be referring to present tense. It goes on:
2:75
Do you ˹believers still˺ expect them to be true to you, though a group of them would hear the word of Allah then knowingly corrupt it after understanding it?
So, a group of them corrupted it. Only a group would corrupt their beliefs.
2:89 goes on to make it clear they still had the scripture "in their hands"
Although they used to pray for victory ˹by means of the Prophet˺ over the polytheists, when there came to them a Book from Allah which they recognized, confirming the Scripture they had ˹in their hands˺, they rejected it. So may Allah’s condemnation be upon the disbelievers.
In addition, the Qur'an does ask it's followers to check with Christians on if it's true or not.
Surah 10:94
If you are in doubt about what we have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Book before you.
I also apologise for my typo. I meant 5:47, not 4:57 and have amended it
No it doesn't
How is it blasphemy?
Quite common for Pharisees like you to try and drive away their critics when their feelings are challenged and they have no proper response.
Acts 4:17-20
But in order that it may spread no further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name.” So they called them and charged them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.”
Acts 13:49-52
And the word of the Lord was spreading throughout the whole region. But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city, stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and drove them out of their district. But they shook off the dust from their feet against them and went to Iconium. And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
And pass this along to those so-called "progressive" "pastors" in your "Church" who seek nothing more than for secular society to speak well of them and like them and popularity.
Luke 6:26
Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
Me? Blaspheming? I'm just shining a light on what the inspired and infallible word of God says. Baselessly accusing people of blasphemy doesn't make you right.
Matthew 26:65
Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy.
Maybe Jesus' teaching is dangerous, as you said.
Matthew 16:24-25
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
"Jesus tells me to kill myself? Surely I'm the one in charge though, what a horrible god"
So you aren't actually looking to engage, but just shout in an echo chamber. Or maybe you're feeling conviction because deep down you know what I'm saying is true and it hurts because you cannot be your own god. That's okay, I have been there once.
But be careful. On the day of Judgement many will say ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then He will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
I don't think you're even reading what I'm saying at all. I literally said that man does not have the authority to carry out what's described in Leviticus 20:13 due to our sinful nature. I debunked any possible "let's kill gay people" reading you could have gotten from it by giving the context. I don't see how that is "dangerous". In fact, just flat out ignoring your own scriptures because your misunderstanding of it makes you feel uncomfortable and not engaging with it is very dangerous.
I'll ask you this if you're actually willing to engage here: What would you say makes someone a Christian?
I was once where you are now.
Once again, telling on yourself. What's not horrible about saying people should be put to death for their private consensual bedroom behavior?
That's not answering my question. You need a definition of "horrible" to understand what isn't "horrible".
I'll give you two suggestions:
Is "horrible" going against what the culture of white people living in the USA and their society says?
Or
Is "horrible" an objective wrong going against what the infallible objective and perfect creator of the universe says?
If you are a Christian then you'd believe the latter. It is also Christian belief that "all scripture is God-breathed" in regards to the old testament. So therefore Leviticus 20:13, in the way as God intended, isn't horrible. Now some people's interpretation of this scripture might be horrible - that possibly means you as well. I just see it as part of the law given to Israel to show as part of the wider narrative that humans are incapable of being perfect and that God needed to send a Saviour and prepare the way for Him. Didn't Jesus command in John 8:1-11 not to stone someone to death, that we do not have the ability to stone someone to death because we aren't perfect? And what did the only one there who could judge do? The literal Perfect Creator of the Universe - Whom is deserving of all Honour and Glory - was standing before her in Human Form. He forgave her, and what He said was "Go and sin no more." There is nobody qualified on this earth to carry out Leviticus 20:13. And He who ascended into Heaven and is seated at the Right hand of God the Father is qualified, offers forgiveness.
How do you define "really horrible"?
Also, it's universally accepted that Leviticus 20:13 is not a command for today. It was a law for Israel to show that even earthly means and men cannot keep Israel's purity. Christ set us free from the law. We don't need to kill each other for sinning. Because we cannot be pure. So Christ died to make us pure.
I attend a UCC church and my pastors do not defend what the Bible says about homosexuality the way you just did.
UCC has been known to be rapidly spiralling down into heresy. They say vague things like "God is still speaking" and that god for whatever reason always affirms what the white cultures believe is right. Convenient that your god changes his mind just to placate the culture about what white people living in the west think, huh. Once again like Israel of old, man thinks he stands in judgement over God.
By what standard?
It's not 100 years later. The first mention of Jesus' resurrection that we still have was written 20 years latest after the fact. Which is shockingly close compared to other records from that time that are typically written decades if not centuries after.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10
For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
For comparison, the earliest written records we have of the 79AD eruption of Mt Vesuvius - something that killed a lot of higher ranking Romans and was possibly witnessed by a quarter of a million people was written by Pliny the Younger in a letter to tacitus at 107AD earliest. Being generous, that's 25 years after the fact (mathematically speaking though it's 28)
Uh, I'm pretty sure the Qur'an is pretty explicit in naming the Bible and Torah as corrupted text that was modified with intent to change the meaning and resultant laws.
No, it's not. In fact, on this hill the Qur'an falls apart.
The Qur'an doesn't ever mention the Bible and the Torah as corrupted.
Surah 5:47
So let the people of the Gospel judge by what allah has revealed in it. And those who do not judge by what allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the rebellious
(This assumes we still have said Gospel)
Surah 5:66
Someone among them(Christians) are upright yet many do nothing but evil
So there are good Gospel followers about - meaning they must have the Gospel. So we know the Gospel existed in Mohammed's time uncorrupted. Thankfully, we still know what the Bible looked like back then. And it is essentially the same as what we have now.
Surah 3:3-4
He has revealed to you oh prophet, the book in truth, confirming what came before (in his time) it the Torah and the Gospel previously, as a guide for people, and also revealed the standard to distinguish right from wrong. Surely those who reject allah's revelations will suffer severe torment. For allah is almighty and capable of punishment
So the Torah and Gospel are both revelations from allah. And they are thus the word of allah.
Surah 6:34
“Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,”
Surah 6:115
“The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all,”
Surah 10:64
“For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity,”
So the words of allah, such as the Gospel cannot be corrupted. So if the Gospel was corrupted, Islam is false. If the Gospel wasn't corrupted then it doesn't "confirm" the Qur'an at all, so Islam is false. This is the Islamic Dilemma.
Interestingly enough, the Hadith records that the Qur'an was changed:
Sahih Muslim Book 4, Hadith Number 1787.
SAHIH MUSLIM BOOK 4. PRAYER
Chapter : Excellence of one who acts upon (the teachings of the) Qur’an and one who teaches it.
Ubayy b. Ka’b reported: I was in the mosque when a man entered and prayed and recited (the Qur’an) in a style to which I objected. Then another man entered (the mosque) and recited in a style different from that of his companion. When we had finished the prayer, we all went to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said to him: This man recited in a style to which I objected, and the other entered and recited in a style different from that of his companion. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) asked them to recite and so they recited, and the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) expressed approval of their affairs (their modes of recitation) and there occurred In my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) saw how I was affected (by a wrong idea), he struck my chest, whereupon I broke into sweating and felt as though I were looking at Allah with fear. He (the Holy Prophet) said to me: Ubayy, a message was sent to me to recite the Qur’an in one dialect, and I replied: Make (things) easy for my people. It was conveyed to me for the second time that it should be recited in two dialects. I again replied to him: Make affairs easy for my people. It was again conveyed to me for the third time to recite in seven dialects And (I was further told): You have got a seeking for every reply that I sent you, which you should seek from Me. I said: O Allah ! forgive my people, forgive my people, and I have deferred the third one for the day on which the entire creation will turn to me, including even Ibrahim (peace be upon him) (for intercession).
Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 41, Hadith Number 601.
SAHIH BUKHARI BOOK 41. LOANS, PAYMENT OF LOANS, FREEZING OF PROPERTY, BANKRUPTCY.
Narated By ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab : I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to that of mine. Allah’s Apostle had taught it to me (in a different way). So, I was about to quarrel with him (during the prayer) but I waited till he finished, then I tied his garment round his neck and seized him by it and brought him to Allah’s Apostle and said, “I have heard him reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to the way you taught it to me.” The Prophet ordered me to release him and asked Hisham to recite it. When he recited it, Allah s Apostle said, “It was revealed in this way.” He then asked me to recite it. When I recited it, he said, “It was revealed in this way. The Qur’an has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easier for you.”
The Qur'an. It seems to assume the Bible is true and a real revelation and that it is a biblical commentary, despite clearly contradicting it in numerous places. It makes sense in the context that it came from an illiterate Bedouin paedophile from the 600s
It sounds like you missed the part where He rose from the dead....
No no no no. It’s the gays that are responsible. THE GAYS!!!!
That's not even what it says. The Bible doesn't really mention homosexuality too much.
And this fucking thing is partly responsible for why numerous things are going wrong with humans today and humans of history.
That's like blaming a doctor's diagnosis of cancer for someone's death. The Bible is just a diagnosis of humanity's problems with a crapton of examples, as well as the solution/hope (although it also makes it clear that people will never try and solve it because of the aforementioned problems)
The begat stuff is Matthew, it's the genealogy of Jesus. This was important within Judaism and also for the prophecy that Jesus was in the line of David, so He was an eligible Messiah.
They are harmless, so don't see why not. I rather them to censorship. I remember mainstream media was heavily editing/censoring the footage of the killing of Charlie Kirk, and even posting the "far away" shot onto the same platforms that had close up, raw, uncensored footage. I heard it debated by them if a content warning and uncensored footage would be more beneficial.
I think the high quality footage itself of it actually made people more sympathetic/outraged about it, just seeing a man die that way